Brentford Review – Arsenal are not just on a blip and something’s got to change

Well it hasn’t just been a blip after all... by Konstantin

Well lovely Arsenal people, it’s another pathetic performance and I’m worried. These kind of performances will not get us anywhere. Slow on the ball, outmuscled in challenges, second to every ball. A few things really sting me more than the result.

First of all is the manager. We’ve suffered a lot in the last 10 years from player favoritism and it hurt us again. Zinny was awful today, but Arteta doesn’t like Tierney, but this was a game where his directness and pace could’ve been useful. Ben White was poor on the other side as well.
We could’ve brought Tommy on, not least to help with the fact that we lost every aerial duel, but also to help out Saka, who, just like Martinelli was constantly doubled on. I am repeating myself but you can’t win the league with 11 players.
Then again Vieira came late on and that cross in the last kick of the game showed why he isn’t coming on more. Since he came on, we had 3 players sitting on the left wing – Trossard, Zinny and him, and nobody in the box. Not that we have a target man like Giroud to lump balls into.
Which brings me onto Eddie. Another of Arteta’s favourites. Here’s the problem with going cheap. He is a nice footballer, has a lovely turn and will score if you give it to him on a plate, but in games like these, Jesus has the ability to take on a player alone and create something. We needed a striker, we didn’t buy one and we’re paying the price.
Then here’s the most painful thing. We still took the lead, then got beat for 4 headers in our box, none of which were contested even. This is unacceptable at any level of football.
Tottenham bailed us out last week by beating City, but they will smash Villa this time 100%. And we deserve it. Maybe these players just don’t have what it takes. I remember back in Fergie days how United struggled in such games, but always found a way to win them. I don’t see it with his team.
We bottled a 4 point advantage with 3 games left to play CL. The league title is awarded in May, not January. Suddenly City is a must win game, but I no longer think we will win that game.
We’ll see in 3 days time, I just hope the manager and the players have a hard look at themselves.

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  1. I agree with everything except when you say city is a must win. We must not lose, but a draw is still fine at this point. We do need to pick it up, though, and I agree that means changes in personnel. I don’t think it’s much, but I’m still remembering arteta sticking with auba for half a season before changing it two years in a row, and I’m worried he’s going to wait too long before changing it up again.
    Nothing against any of the players who started yesterday – they’ve been great all season, but it’s clear we need to freshen it up.

  2. You idiot. So KT would be better, to do what, get lots of crosses into the box with 9 defenders. Arsenal are six points ahead with 21 games gone. They have the youngest team also.

  3. Konstantin.

    You don’t go out and buy another Gabriel Jesus.
    We do not have the right to win all the games, let us learn to manage our pains and expectations, we are grown ups!
    You have to give credit to the opposition sometimes, Brentford are unbeaten in ten games for a reason.

    I agree on Arteta, he needs to work out how to play these kind of games, there is no need to go overboard with the criticisms, we just have to keep supporting the team and hope we turn it around quickly. Coyg!

  4. Agree re Jesus, we need him back pronto.

    But the Man Utd you compare us to got the benefit of decisions, we get the opposite. In the Shearer thread I posted the 3 big VAR decisions costing us 7 points this season – with nothing at all coming back the other way iirc.

    And when you look at teams who’re allowed to kick our players to bits… it’s the exact opposite of Man Utd back then when they had “Fergie time” etc.

    Yesterday should’ve been a tough game that ended 1-0 to Arsenal.

  5. Brentford beat City. And they are on a good run. That should tell about the type of opposition they are .

    On the positive side, I saw a lot of switches in positions by our players yesterday which is a commendable risk from them. And it shows they wanted to win the game badly. Saka, Martinelli, Nkettia, Xhaka, Odegaard and Zichenko were swapping positions from left and right. They gave their best.

    The negative I saw was slow passes forward from deep when we break. We allowed opponents to recover on time. Partey, Zichenko, Gabriel and Saliba should take risk with long passes. If I were Arteta, I would bring on Joginho instead of Viera because of his ability to make long range passes. Ben White should learn to find spaces to shoot from the edge of the box since opposition defense like to follow Saka.

    We need help from the bench. Only Trossard threatens opposition when he comes in. Viera was largely unavailable.

    I trust the team.

  6. We’ve definitely lost form but looking how United drew midweek, Newcastle drew and Spurs lost, it seems its inevitable for all teams. Let’s hope for more draws today!

  7. If city wins the next 2 games they’re on top, we’re finished! Thank God I have already impregnated my wife otherwise depression could have been a barrier again just like 3 seasons ago.

  8. Once again the first thing to notice is that the word”blip”, whilst appearing promiently in the headline, is not used at all by Konstantin.

    So that tells me that “blip” is not understood by different people – in this case Ad Pat and Konstantin – as being the very same thing.

    We have not won in three games, all in different circumstances and in all three we have NOT been the better team.
    So then, “blip” or “trend”, or perhaps something else altogether?
    The problem we have when analysing reasons, is that by using deliberately provocative or emotive words, it tends to polarise debate and make a sensible analysis more difficult to reach.

    You may well think it is the reason Ad Pat runs JA, that makes him use polarising language headlines and I would agree with that too.

    He needs comments, put simply.

    But I have always been in a minority, I suspect, of wanting more sensible and less reactionary, less hasty comments , often provoked by a red flag to a bull type headline.

    For now , I will leave my post there – as others will be better able to analyse the reasons why we have lost three – and hope , just HOPE, that at least one or more Gooners will reflect on this post and consider how they personally react to emotive headlines.

    I tend to challenge them, as that is my nature . I try to improve what I see as harmful to TRUTH, in life generally and also in JA.

  9. I don’t want to make excuses for our poor performance, as Brentford deserved the win, but amazingly, VAR forgot to draw the lines for their equalizer!

    Absolutely shocking!

    They also made a mistake for Brighton, and how Chelsea didn’t get a pen for that blatant handball – it’s unbelievable!

    I cannot stand VAR!

    1. JEN then why not do as I DO(and I do it often)?? I state with ferocity how HARMFUL VAR is to our beloved sport. Join the fan campaign against it. It is a farce and always has been.

      Yesterday games in the Pren were just a rather worse than average day for VAR, but in reality it ruins the fans spectacle, enjoyment, passion, in almost EVERY GAME IT INFECTS.

      I urge you to speak out on JA against it, as I DO, AND DO SO REGULARLY,

        1. Jen, when you do pen your article, please renember that it is NOT var that is at fault – it is the incompetent people who use it!!
          VAR didn’t forget to draw the line in order to prove that the goal was offside did it?
          It’s like blaming your car for being involved in a accident, when you, the driver, was at fault.
          I was going to do an article myself, but will look forward to reading yours.

          As for Konstantine’s article, I do wonder if he ever sees the other teams performances?
          Brentford played to their strengths, not ours, just as Everton did last week.

          We should have won the game in retrospect, simply because their goal was an illegal one, missed by an ex referee getting paid a nigh on six figure salary to watch replays and use the technology available to make a 100% correct decision.
          The fact that he was incompetent (as he was when actually referring games) is not the fault of var… I rest my case.

              1. Agree with the article Sliw on the attack.Passing all day instead of shooting
                If Ma is pragmatic hd shd park the bus.
                A draw is good enough.
                Wenger refused to do so inspite of msny i juries and waz massscred 8-2

          1. KEN, Needless to say all sane people will, always agree that it is NOT the technology that is at fault but the human errors who operate it. Wise folk would have worked out, right from the start of this idea,and accepted that humans, when having to make personal INTERPRETATION, ie subjective calls, will make mistakes.
            For that very reason, the wise human thing to have done, would be to DELAY operation of what is an incompetent human operation , allowing that it is humans, not the tech that is incompetent, UNTIL such time as VAR can be made instantly and come directly( via tech ityself) to the ref(like goal line decisions do) and bypass a second incompetent ref at Stockley Park.

            All tech becomes better, given TIME and the mistake made by introducing VAR before the tech is sophisticated enough to be non subjective and also INSTANT, is what makes it hugely frustrating , controversial and time consuming, thus all spoiling the vitally importan fan enjoyment of our game.

            It was , simply put , brought in before it could ever work properly , given that humans need to interpret it. THAT was the FUNDAMENTAL error that will,in time, be eradicated.
            But until then, we should get rid of it, as it does far more harm to fan enjoyment than it achieves in getting often subjective calls correct.
            To sum up, though not actually faulty , it is not YET sufficiently sophisticated or speedy to be of real use AND ALWAYS correct. Which was the intention, however naive, from those who first proposed it .

            1. Jon, the PL was very late in bringing VAR into the PL versus other countries.
              But when they did, it was yet another incompetent ex referee in Riley, who decided he knew better than everyone previously in how to implement this technology.
              Do you realise Jon, that the same person who awarded the Brentford goal, was the same person who disallowed Martinelli’s goal against United?

              Now, once is a mistake, but twice?

              Yet, he is still allowed to continue making these mistakes mistakes that any properly trained individual should NOT make.

              When will our officials actually be made accountable and I’m not sure if you are aware, but we have been contacted by Webb, who admits that it was a mistake by the VAR team.

              As for speeding up the decision making, yet again you are blaming the system, when all it is producing is the content.

              1. KEN ARE YOU SHORT SIGHTED !! I specifically wrote that is it human error and that VAR as of now is NOT faulty, but insufficiently sophisticated.
                I also plainly said, that human error in interpretaion ought to have been factored in right at the start of thinking about introducing VAR but naively was NOT.

                Care to address please precisely what I DID write and NOT your own mistaken interpretation of it ??
                FYI, a few minutes ago, I emailled AdPAT to wait untill articles from both side my own and either you or IDKWICor both, are received and commented upon.
                And THEN, after the fan comments on both sides , to hold a Gooner poll on the outcome. This only happened a few minutes ago, so I WAIT TO SEE WHAT PAT SAYS.

                1. Actually Jon, I am short sighted, so I would make a perfect VAR appointee wouldn’t you agree?

                  Please don’t shout either, as that really doesn’t make any difference!!!

                  As I was trying to explain to you, if it’s human error, why get rid of the instrument that would correct their errors?

                  Surely you are aware that it was Riley and his incompetent lot that ruled how VAR would be interpreted in the PL?

                  Once that happened, we will knew errors would occur…. not by var, but as you rightly say, the humans entrusted to implement it.

                  I assume you drive a car Jon? If you have an accident, do you think you should be held accountable, or should cars be banned for everyone because you can’t handle technology??

            2. As ever on this subject, illogical thinking.

              The only instant tech in sport is in areas where no subjective assessment is required – no application of the sport’s rules.

              The tennis analogy which you’re so fond of using is totally inappropriate – it’s the same as goal-line technology precisely because they don’t need any subjective analysis. It’s simply a case of “was the ball over a line?”.

              Look at Brentford’s “goal” yesterday. You have to decide if the guy impeding Gabriel was doing it illegally or not. And was he offside to start with. If he was offside, was he interfering with play?

              The fact that he was the one heading the ball down to the guy who crossed to Toney means that he was interfering. The guy he headed it to was also offside.

              There’s a whole heap of subjective assessment there that’s a million miles from instant response.

              But I suspect you know that, what I see from you is always along the lines of “The moon isn’t made of green cheese, so we should get rid of VAR”.

              Basically it’s always a case of stating some fact such as “VAR isn’t instant” then plucking your favourite conclusion out of thin air, hoping people won’t notice that your conclusion does *not* follow from whatever minor factoid you raised.

              It’s getting tiresome to be frank. Sorry to be blunt, but if you really cannot see how utterly nonsensical your position is… it doesn’t show you in a good light, that’s for sure.

              1. IDKWIC I trust that you do realise that you are making my own precise point and doing it very well. You are highlighting ref error, in that Brentford goal. I could not agree more.

                You are also saying that it is a subjective call and on which I also agree. How many people do YOU think should be able to make final decisions on subjective calls? One perhaps, as I DO? Two, as in VAR? Or more still?

                Moving to your false accusation that I “pluck my favourite conclusion out of thin air” which is laughably wrong, as well as arrogant, as you know nothing about me at all and if you did, you would know how VERY WRONG that falsehood is!
                When I air serious views on serious subjects , I always, ALWAYS, give great care to saying exactly what and why I believe what I say and THAT after great prior thought.
                You falsely claim that I am against change(visceral) in an effort to discredit me and my intellect. I am bright enough to know that humans make erroirs ; player, managers, owners, even FANS!

                So how do you propise to change human nature ?? By more training of refs?

                Do you seriously suggest that existing refs are not trained in VAR and yet they still make regular errors; both the pitch ref and VAR ref?

                Do you think it just tough luck on fans that they must accept long delays in final VAR deliberations, which still often get the wrong call and that goal celebs should be just nullified as “that’s fine, as long as we get the correct decision eventually?” Except that often we DONT GET IT, DO WE!

                I will tell you what change this so called “visceral” deeply thinking fan wants. I want the all impotant spectators who are the backbone and lifeblood of our game and who without us the game would die in no time at all,to be PUT FIRST.
                I want, passionately want, those who fund the gameand who fund the multi millionaire players to have RIGHTS too. I want fans to have the right to say whether or not, in a mass percentage vote of ALL clubs everywhere, to have a vote on whether or not to keep or ban VAR.

                I WANT SHADES OF GREY TO BE OFFERED TO THE FANS. I want them to have the chance to keep VAR, as at present, to ban it completely, AND to say we want it but not until it is so fast, so difficult for even an imperfect ref doing his best in difficult circumstances , to mess up those VERY SWIFT non subjective calls; eg in or out of penalty box, that until that tech ability arrives, we will discontinue its use.

                In the main VAR tackes subjective calls more often than “black or white no controversy” calls. As subjective cals is always someones opinion, it makes sense to have ONE person, not moremaking that swift final decision.

                I would accept VAR, reluctantly, (as it undemines the actul arefs authority which I see as retrograde) , IF very speedy and only for all non subjective calls, but the tech is not yet ready

                And CRUCIALLY , I would accept it if an overall fan majority voted to keep it, either as it is, or in any other way or form. Fams en mass,e not you not I should be those who truly decide, because fans are THOSE WHO LOVE AND PROTECT OUR GAME AND ALWAYS WILL BE , MERCIFULLY.

                I am a serious minded person and think properly and deeply on many life matters and that includes football. “VISCERAL” I AM NOT.


                I IMAGINE EVEN YOU ARE IMPERFECT TOO. All humans are, my less than worldly wise friend!

                1. Once again, absolute twaddle from start to finish.

                  One man makes the decision, others have input and technology assists them. From the PL web site:

                  ———– PL website FAQ ———————-
                  Can VAR overrule a referee?

                  No. The final decision is always taken by the on-field referee. The VAR only provides advice.
                  ———- END —————————————

                  This was covered in the discussion 5 days ago. I’m beginning to wonder if your mind is fully functional because it’s tiresome to go over the same ground, batting away your feeble attempts to present a case for scrapping VAR only to see the same drivel re-emerge a couple of days later.

                  And stop claiming that other people have “made your case” – that is utter nonsense. Your “case” such as it is, has been trashed repeatedly. Perhaps you’re simply not bright enough to see it despite all your self-aggrandising claims that occupied half of your latest essay.

                  I honestly can’t be respond to the same old illogical claptrap you’ve posted 100 times over.

                  1. IDKWIC I can see that though you are extremely bright and goods with ,you are rather an unpleasant, arrogant and obnoxious man . One whom I would rather not spend time with discussing any more.

                    You do not want to even try getting some meeting of minds on finer points of this debate. You are merely intentionally and obnoxiously, personally rude.

                    Well so be it, but though I AM ALSO OFTEN RUDE , I do not dismiss other obviously bright people as idiots, as you are very plainly choosing to do, to your huge discredit. Goodbye!

                    1. If you were bright, you wouldn’t have to constantly tell people that. Intelligent people don’t have to do that.

                      Since you feel free to tell me how you feel about me, I’ll feel free to do the same: my opinion of you is that you are not remotely bright. You are rude, loud and a negative factor in this forum – in my humble opinion, if the word “arrogant” applies to anyone here, that’d be you in spades.

                      You regularly insult the admins, in this discusson you’ve also insulted Ken – and when he highlighted your behaviour, you told him not to be a “snowflake”.

                      For some time, until the VAR thing, I’ve simply avoided responding to your posts…

                      And I really wish I didn’t have to deal with the stuff you post regarding VAR, but if the alternative is to let it stand then I feel that I have little choice.

                      If you don’t want to respond to my posts, that’s up to you (now who’s being a “snowflake”?) but I’m not obliged to refrain from responding to your posts. In fact I’ve been biting my tongue for some time now when it comes to you, so don’t expect such an easy ride in future.

                      I will, of course, endeavour to be as polite as possible at all times.

    2. VAR didn’t forget, the official using it did.

      Apparently he spent so long looking at the first incident (Gabriel being held on the edge of the area) that he rushed the offside part. I’m not sure how the BBC pundits know what he was doing during thiose 3 minutes but they say that’s what happened.

      Please stop saying “VAR did X” when you mean “the VAR officials”.

      It only encourages illogical responses from people who can’t – or won’t – see the difference.

      1. I agree that the officials forgot, not the system of VAR, but it backs my point that VAR should be removed because of that.

        There will always be human error whilst using humans to make decisions. Since the introduction of VAR, there has been more controversy than there has ever been!

        That’s why goal line technology is such an amazing tool, whereas VAR is the worst thing to happen to football.

        1. You have a very short memory, if you think there are more bad decisions because of var than when it wasn’t available.
          As I said above, you are blaming something that doesn’t have any part in the actual decision making and, surely, if human error is still a part of screwing up a straight forward decision, change the human for a more competent one and don’t discard the technology, that’s just plain daft.
          If we did that with all new technology, we would be back to the stone age!!!

          1. Ah our posts arrived at the exact same minute Ken.

            You’re quite right of course, the stats show that the number of bad decisions has improved (i.e. been reduced) – the problem is that they should be at or near zero with this technology being used correctly – and they’re not.

            And that’s because the officials are terrible.

            Also worth remembering that in the past everyone saw the replays – execpt the officials. So we all knoew a bad decision had been made, one minute after itd bene made, we just couldn’t do anything about it.

            At least now the officials also get to see it before finalising a decision – when they still get it wrong it shows us that they were the problem all along.

            What you do about bad officiating, obviously, is to improve the standard of refs etc, not throw out the technology that showed up the problem! (And is clearly a major part of the solution for the future).

          2. You’re completely missing the point Ken. VAR is a tool designed for humans to use, and humans by nature, will always make imperfect decisions.

            It’s been 5 years of being used poorly. Are you telling me they haven’t been training them? Or that they haven’t made many amendments?

            The controversy is far worse, because in the old days, officials only had one look at a decision in real time. Now they have all the time in world to view as many times as possible, from multiple angles and in real time and slow motion. Shocking decisions should now be inexcusable, yet we’ve just had arguably the worst VAR weekend of all time!

            So after 5 years of VAR, they still don’t know what a handball looks like, and even worse, they don’t checking the offside lines!

            What next? Another 5 years of training and amendments? I look forward to seeing the results of that!

            1. You are confirming my points, but you cannot see it!!
              Five years and yet we still have incompetent people either training or implementing a perfectly good system.

              Don’t you agree that var only records what happens?
              It makes no decisions whatsoever and is doing exactly the same thing it did five years ago.

              Tell me this, what is it, exactly, that you think is so difficult about var, that, supposedly, our elite referees are finding difficult to use!?

              By the way, we have (The Arsenal) been contacted by Webb and told that the var team made a mistake… not var itself.

              I look forward to your article though, as debate is always good.

              1. I’ll pen article on it in more detail, and about the actual system also being a problem.

                And you’ve inadvertently backed up my point. “Five years and yet we still have incompetent people either training or implementing”. And that’s one of my points. People will always make mistakes.

                It shouldn’t take 5 years, plus the time previously spent on trails to get it right, yet here we are. I expect we’ll be having the exact same conversation in another 5 years.

              2. Quite right Ken. But there’s little point in arguing with the anti-VAR crowd, they don’t seem to do logic.

                I’ve said before that their position is entirely visceral but it doesn’t stop them coming back with, basically… stuff that doesn’t add up. Over and over.

                VAR is here to stay, even they know that. All we’re doing is to give them a sounding board to vent their feelings about it. No matter how much people destroy their arguments, they just keep saying them over and over again. Genuinely tiresome.

            2. Well said JEN . I HAVE EMAILLED AD PAT to say he should expect articles on BOTH SIDES OF THIS DEBATE.

              I will be sending in one by Tuesday coming . I also asked him to conduct a fan poll but only after both sides have had time to fully make their own articles giving detailed reasons why we think as we do . And to wait before conducting a poll until Gooners have had sufficient time to answer all articles on VAR.


              1. Jon, what rubbish you do say sometimes.
                Jen is saying that in five years, the current refereeing organisation still cannot make the right decisions, so we should accept that they are incompetent, cannot improve, make awful decisions and scrap var because they can’t use it properly!!!!

                What, exactly, do you think anyone needs to implement var correctly, apart from common sense and following the rule book?

                1. Ken,Then explain WHY such right decisions are still not happening after all these years!
                  I know why. It iscbecause humans are and always will be imperfect.
                  Either you accept that truth or you go on demanding something you will never get; human perfection.
                  Some people are brighter than others, even though NOT perfect themselves.
                  That is not different with refs. Why would it ever be expected, except by a non deep thinker?

                  1. As Ken said, you really do write some utter nonsense Jon.

                    As I’ve pointed out to you as recently as *last week*, other sports get this right almost 100%. Rugby union, US football.

                    Even if they didn’t, the fact that it’s improved matters makes it worthwhile. The stats show that – as I’ve said to you before.

                    But you don’t ever listen. You keep saying the same stuff over and over again, no matter how much it’s destroyed… back you come, same ridiculous arguments.

                    And… why did you email Pat? He reads every article. He’s said that on many occasions. Perhaps you felt the need to help him understand what he reads?

                    And why did you believe you can write to someone and speak for other people? If they want to write articles it’s up to them, not you.

                    When I first started posting here you seemed ok, but you’ve become increasingly manic, rude and… often utterly illogical. Word of advice: try and tone it down a bit? It got tiresome quite a long time ago.

        2. No it most certainly does *not* back removing VAR.

          The officials need to be better, surely that’s completely obvious?

          If they can’t even get it right with VAR, how bad will they be without it?

          VAR only shows you what happened and makes it easier to get it right. The technology is not at fault if the human using it fails to correctly apply the rules to what they see on the replays.

          1. Correct and what it also proves, is that our referee’s are so incompetent, they still make mistakes using a 100% fail proof technology system, using the current rules governing football.

            1. Then Ken, humans being what we are, what sensible solution do YOU propose? To go on with error strewn VAR simply becaue it is the humansm not the present albeit less sophisticted tech that is at fault?

              Humans will always make errors. I would accept that and back the pitch ref , not undermine him, while expecting players to respect him. That is unthinking and does not allow for how human nature is.

              My view would accept human nature, accept that refs make HONEST mistakes but not ruin the goal spectacle and make spectators constantly frustrated.

              You will not accept that I agree, but that saddens me as in other matters you are wise and NOT naive!

              1. Jon, humans are making mistakes, not the technology that they, for some unfathomable reason, cannot use in a competent way.

                Is it SO difficult, to sit in front of a monitor, with knowledge of the rules of football and decide if the rules allow one to check incidents not seen by the officials, for whatever reason?

                The timing it takes to reach the CORRECT decision shouldn’t matter, as long as the RIGHT decision is made.

                Why you fail to understand that, is something that I find very difficult to understand… bearing in mind our winning goal against united taking over three minutes to be confirmed!!

                1. ken read agoin my reply to yur earlier post Bot sides of this VAR debate AGREE that it is human eroor Why you stil dispute what I and JEN have both said about humans making errors seems to me to be a deliberate policy of attacking by deliberate misinterpretation. The KEY difference in both sides is that my side accept and allows for human error and knows that we are not able, to eliminate human error. That is obvious and ought TO BE SO TO YOU.

                  BUT FOR WHATEVR REASON YOU ARE UNABLE TO GRASP THAT FACT. To moan about refs, who are also HUMANS , making mistakes is akin to spitting in the wind. You perfection seekers can and will never accept that human frailty exists and always will.

                  THAT sums up the TRUE difference in our views. For the UMPTEENTH TIME ,I AGREE THAT HUMANS MAKE ERRORS AND ALWAYS WILL.

                  BUT YOU, NAIVELY, WILL NOT ACCEPT THAT TRUTH. You would rather go on moaning at humans/ refs for being imperfect. Well my friend good luck with THAT one!

                  Another matter, you wrongly assume, in your last line, that because I am a Gooner, that I SHOULD WANT WHAT BENEFITS OUR TEAM .


                  1. Jon, I am not saying that human beings don’t make mistakes am I?
                    What I’m saying is remove those humans who continually make mistakes after five years of training and insert humans who can follow rules after being trained…. for five years!!!

                    I will not insult you by replying in the same way that you have Jon, I rise above personal attacks and just give my personal opinion.

                    1. Oh KEN, dont go all snowflake after all these years and at our time of life!

                      If you cannot handle,direct, to the point but non abusive speech, then perhaps “nasty JA” is too much for you.
                      As a former ref yourself, I know you will have heard real abuse, probably weekly, so please dont insult my intelligence by pretending I have been rude to you.

                    2. This has been explained to him a whole 5 days ago – see the link I posted above (as and when it’s approved).

                      I told him then that other sports get the use of VAR right, the subjective assessment made by humans gets to the right decisions (rugby union, US football were the examples I used). Therefore training better refs is the answer for football.

                      And also that even as it is, VAR has reduced the errors.

                      He then stops posting, he must realise he’s not making sense… but next time the subject is raised… back he comes, time after time… same old…

                      zzzzz Boring, illogical, annoying.

          2. I agree with IDWIC
            It is illogical to get rid of technology simply because the officials are using it incorrectly.
            The officials did not follow what are relatively straightforward forward procedures. They need to address this.
            However, getting rid of the VAR will just allow more mistakes.

      2. IDKWIC, I ASK YOU TO READ MY POST ABOVE ,IN REP[LY TO Ken, who takes your view.

        Wiser folk should have foreseen the human error that was always bound to happen with insufficiently sophisticated tech. They ought to have waited until such tech was faster, less open to human misinterpretation and, where that could NOT ever happen, then not use the VARin those cases at all.

        Only where speedy and 100% CORRECT, non controversial decision could be made , without human subjective call error. That OUGHT to have been foreseen, but, naively, was NOT!

        1. Jon, do you have the attention span of a gnat? Or are you playing some silly game to test our patience?

          In the debate 5 days ago I explained to you at great length that:

          1. Human error does not get in the way of other sports using teh same technology getting it right. Remember: US football and rugnby union weere the xampes? Where they get it about 100% right.

          Also that it has improved matters even as bad as it is? Remeber that?

          And there is absolutely *no* requirement for it to be instant. You made that up. Comparing tennis is your usual weak attempt at cherry-picking – because tennis has no subjective assessment, all they need is the equivalent of goal-line tech (was it over a line or not?). A totally invalid comparator.

          If I sound terse, it’s becasue I’m annoyed. I’d be more patient if I hadn’t had this very same discussion with you – at great length – less than a week ago. It’s quite ridiculous in my opinion that you are wasting everyone’s time here with this illogical claptrap over and over again, mere days apart.

          1. IDKWIC I suggest that you scroll up to read my post (timed at 6.04 pm), as it seems you have not seen it.

            I would point out that on JA it is common to discuss matters more than once. That may seem “ridiculous” to you but not to most of us. I would not wish to intrude on your clearly valuable time though, so if you prefer not to answer my above post, I will understand how very busy you must be!!

            1. Disingenuous as ever.

              Making the *same points* over and over again – when they have been destroyed… no.

              And coming from you, who complains every time there’s a repeat article in the Rumours section that you don’t like… how many times have you literally shouted at Martin – for essentially doing his job (it seems he’s the guy who’s supposed to cover reporting on transfer rumours).

  10. Before the ref even went to VAR we bottled the entire play.

    1. How many chances did we have to clear the ball? It pinged in the box 4 times at least.

    2. Ramsdale flapped weakly trying g to block the kick

    3. No one was marking Toney when he was positioning for the header knowing he was an obvious threat

    We bottled chances before it even went to VAR.

    1. Durand
      Does it matter if Ramsdale flapped and nobody was marking Toney? In one sense it meant that the team were not convincing or being given a stern test but it also meant that the goal should not have stood. That is indisputable. Games get won or lost on deflections or an outstanding opportunistic goal for example, but experienced and well paid officials who operate VAR should not be making this and other errors that could materially affect the remainder of the season. Other officials at other matches also made glaring mistakes yesterday. There is too much at stake

      1. I’m not excusing VAR SueP, I’m merely saying we had it in our hands to handle the situation. We failed to do so in multiple chances, and then complain because VAR didn’t bail us out.

        VAR messed up yes, absolutely, but didn’t the players also? We didn’t handle the business, in spite of 4 chances to clear the ball. Brentford had more fight and desire in that particular situation than us, hence the goal and our failure to clear the ball.

        1. Durand
          Let’s just differ on this
          You think that Brentford deserved to get something from the game and therefore, the failure of the VAR operative to draw the correct conclusion was a way of evening it out on the day, hence your reference to VAR not bailing us out.
          I prefer to look at it as an Arsenal team having a difficult afternoon, legitimately scoring and then having a gormless official allow an offside goal when he had all the necessary equipment to make the correct decision

          1. Good points.
            Most fair minded people would accept that Brentford played to their strengths and were effective in doing so. However, that should not excuse what was a bad decision by the refereeing team; one that clearly had a material effect on the outcome.

          2. Yep that’s the thing – if it’d been 1-0 Arsenal people would be singing our praises, saying “Champions grind out wins when they don’t perform well”.

            Now, thanks to officials, they’re saying something else.

            At the end of the season, the eternal depressives such as Smith will be claiming that we “bottled it”, ignoring that 7 points and counting have been taken away from us due to official incompetence (or perhaps, something other than incompetence, as some people are starting to ask).

  11. Leeds vs Utd is end-to-end stuff. I’m enjoying every bit of it. Maguire should be off tho. Tierney is having subpar performance as expected.

      1. For Jon & Ken
        I would love to see both sides of the argument for VAR.

        But there is a fundamental issue which is: “Whether the right decision is the most important thing or is it fans entertainment the most important thing?”.

        1. IGL . Rest assured that very poiint you so rightly raise will be ONE,among ather arguments too, that I will be putting forward for my case that VAR should at least be halted UNTIL(IF EVER!!) the technology becomes suifficiently advanced, meaning in SPEED and accuracy to correctly call all non subjective calls.

          I maintain that for subjective calls, where it is mere opinion by a ref and another opinion by a VAR ref, that in those cases, VAR is not used at all.

          Most of all I would like a Prem League led national fan vote , among all fans of PREM clubs, to see whether or not fans en masse are a majority for or against VAR.

          Or for some other form of VAR. I would accept the democratic majority verdict gladly, but would definitely want that mass fan vote.
          And I will be proposing exactly THAT in my soon coming article. I hope you will comment.

        2. IGL Why do you assume that those objectives run contrary to each other?

          Why would sensible fans be less entertained if the right decisions are made?

          I think you’ll find that the majority are in favour of VAR (in football and in other sports) because getting the wrong decision actively *detracts* from their enjoyment of the game.

          To me, those are complementary objectives, they are not in opposition. Getting the right decisions *adds* to enjoyment.

          Consider this: the margins in top-level sport are wafer thin. When most games are won by 1 or 2 goals (if they are won at all), the difference a refereeing decision can make is that you get the wrong outcome to whole game, a whole season.

  12. The usual moaning rhetoric from this writer. Please give over with the ‘favourites’ claptrap and ‘Arteta doesn’t like Tierney’.
    BTW, Mason needs sacking for ‘forgetting’ to use the lines across the pitch which would have proved the offside, or is it due to him being a ****ing cheat? Either way he needs sacking!

    1. As I mentioned earlier GB, it was also him who disallowed Martinelli’s goal against united!!!

      But it seems that, as he’s only human, we should accept his mistakes, keep paying him and scrap the technology he cannot implement and / or understand.

  13. We have had much the same line up all season but I think Arteta will wait until after the City game to shake things up a bit. It is not really playing favourites just standing by players who have had an exceptional season.

  14. City is a must win or draw
    If we lose, City will run away from us and most likely win the PL

    The last 2 matches may have killed our chances

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